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neil45
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Brechin, scotland
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 Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| thecactus wrote: | | forests wrote: | | If ghosts exist anyone should be able to see them, and the idea with modern mediumship like on those shows where a single medium out of 600 or so people claims to be the only one to "mentally" be in contact with a spirit is absolutely stupid and only gullible people will believe in this nonsense. |
Is it not possible that some people really are sensitives, and are naturally more sensitive to the spirit world than the average person? I believe that is the case in general, not referring to mediumship but just generally sensing a spirits presence; you see it all the time on shows retelling a ghost encounter, for example: a couple are sleeping in bed, one wakes up and claims to sense a presence in the room, while the other remains oblivious. |
So Forests, as I believe what I was told by a medium does that make me gullible?
Hoow about her using telepathy about the mirror she mentioned, did she read my mind? If so she would have to be bloody brilliant, because until 5 minutes after she mentioned it I had actually forgotten that mirror existed, nor have I ever thought about that mirror since I was young.
As I have said, its great that this thread has opened a debate, because this site has been missing that type of thing IMO, but for you to call the likes of me gullible for actually believing such, is a bit rude, dont you think?
Secondly, please answer what makes you think ESP/Telepathy is possible, after all, you have already stated that seeing ghosts/mediumship if exisiting should be able to be done by us all, well dont you think so should ESP/Telepathy. |
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forests
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So Forests, as I believe what I was told by a medium does that make me gullible? |
I went over what this medium told you, it sounds like guess work to me. She mentioned a mirror... so what? Nothing special! Anyone could guess such a thing. Instead of telling us the small amount of things she got correct, why not mention all the total nonsense and incorrect things she told you?
| Quote: | | Hoow about her using telepathy about the mirror she mentioned, did she read my mind? If so she would have to be bloody brilliant, because until 5 minutes after she mentioned it I had actually forgotten that mirror existed, nor have I ever thought about that mirror since I was young. |
We only need to resort to a supernatural hypotheses if all natural explanations are ruled out. I see no reason to invoke telepathy in your mediumship sitting becuase it sounds like guessing and other typical mentalist tricks to me. As you don't have your mediumship sitting recorded, it is hard to make an overall conclusion.
| Quote: | | As I have said, its great that this thread has opened a debate, because this site has been missing that type of thing IMO, but for you to call the likes of me gullible for actually believing such, is a bit rude, dont you think? |
You have not read the literature or research, how do you explain the research that shows ghosts and mediumship contradict each other?
| Quote: | | Secondly, please answer what makes you think ESP/Telepathy is possible, after all, you have already stated that seeing ghosts/mediumship if exisiting should be able to be done by us all, well dont you think so should ESP/Telepathy. |
Anything is possible. I agree if ghosts exist (anyone should be able to see them) and that is what the research suggests, the debate is not about if ghosts exist, it is about what they are, some people believe they are nothing more than hallucinations, others souls or spirits of the dead etc.
According to mediumship only a few "select" people can "mentally" contact "spirits". Most mediums believe their powers come from God. Total nonsense.
| Quote: | | well dont you think so should ESP/Telepathy |
The status of telepathy is controversial. Parapsychologists believe their experiments and research have proven that it exists, and that anyone (or at least most people) can perform it but the scientific community does not. As I said I open to telepathy, I have just see no reason to invoke it in the case of mediumship.
Fraud/psychology explains mediumship.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediumship |
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neil45
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Brechin, scotland
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:29 am Post subject: |
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She could guess a mirror? with roses round it? hanging off a chain? WOW, one hell of a guess that!
As for other nonsense she told me, she never actually mentioned much wrong, but at the same time did not tell much more about my mum or dad.
She did mention my gran, who thanked me for saving her from abuse in a care home, and the abuse she meant was when me and a cousin discovered she was being pinched and bruised by a member of staff, but I bet she guessed that did she not?
Another medium I saw a few years ago after my dad died, mentioned rowing over a white car, which in turn was my two brothers arguing who was having my dads car, which in fact was white.
She mentioned the names Sandy and Molly, not common names to guess, yet Molly was my sisters mother in Law, and Sandy was my dads friend in work, cracking guesses eh!
And finally one I will share.
Before my dad died, my mum used to go my sisters every single monday when my dad was away, he was a long distance driver.
While out, my mum used to drink an alcopop called Vodka Buzz.
After my dad died, my mum got miserable as can be expected, and stopped going out.
One of the last things through a medium he said was "tell your mum the flying heart with the dagger through it is there to be enjoyed, dont waste your time away".
Roll on a month or so,(and that by the way was something I thought was a load of rubbish)I was staying at my mums and my sis came round armed with a few bottles of Vodka Buzz.
Although my mum did not want it at first, I happened to notice something on the neck of the bottle, it was the VB Emblem, which was infact a heart with wings and a sword through the centre. But then, hell, I just realised, she guessed that too eh? |
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forests
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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You have been duped. When you walk out of the medium sittings the sitters such as yourself always remember the supposed "hits" but you forget the misses. There are more misses than the small amount of "hits". And the "hits" are never specific, never anything really convincing, just guess work or general comments that can connect to most people.
| Quote: | | As for other nonsense she told me, she never actually mentioned much wrong, but at the same time did not tell much more about my mum or dad. |
exactly its all bogus, if she was really in contact with your mum or dad she would of told you some personal details etc.
| Quote: | | She mentioned the names Sandy and Molly, not common names to guess, yet Molly was my sisters mother in Law, and Sandy was my dads friend in work, cracking guesses eh! |
yes they were guesses, molly your sisters mother in law and sandy one of your friends dad from work? just random names that appeared to "hit" with you. This medium probably named you other names but you forgot them. you are desperate to believe in this mediumship nonsense so you cling to any "hit". think about it, if this medium was really in contact with your mum and dad then why did she not reveal anything useful or detailed and why silly references to a friend of your dads etc.. as I said just typical guesses, its called cold reading.
watch this video here of the cold reader Maureen Flynn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82tTr5I33hc
As you can see a man who had a private session with this medium said that she had told him six names and that most of them were hits, but in reality, she had told him 36 names and hardly any of them were hits.
Last edited by forests on Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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neil45
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Brechin, scotland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| forests wrote: | u have been duped mate. when you walk out of the medium sittings the sitters such as yourself always remember the supposed "hits" but you forget the misses. There are more misses than the small amount of "hits". And the "hits" are never specific, never anything really convincing, just guess work or general comments that can connect to most people.
I did not forget the missus, because there weren't any. It may seem to you I have been duped, but as for the few names picked out, you cannot seriously say names that are not too common were guess work.
| Quote: | | As for other nonsense she told me, she never actually mentioned much wrong, but at the same time did not tell much more about my mum or dad. |
exactly its all bogus, if she was really in contact with your mum or dad she would of told you some personal details etc.
She did and ones I will not divulge on a public forum.
| Quote: | | She mentioned the names Sandy and Molly, not common names to guess, yet Molly was my sisters mother in Law, and Sandy was my dads friend in work, cracking guesses eh! |
yes they were guesses, molly your sisters mother in law and sandy one of your friends dad from work? just random names that appeared to "hit" with you. This medium probably named you other names but you forgot them. you are desperate to believe in this mediumship nonsense so you cling to any "hit". think about it, if this medium was really in contact with your mum and dad then why did she not reveal anything useful or detailed and why silly references to a friend of your dads etc.. as I said just typical guesses, its called cold reading.
watch this video here of the cold reader Maureen Flynn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82tTr5I33hc
As you can see a man who had a private session with this medium said that she had told him six names and that most of them were hits, but in reality, she had told him 36 names and hardly any of them were hits. |
How do you explain the nights out scenario? or have you trouble reading posts, as you have obvioulsy not looked at what I have said.
As for the video above, I do not doubt for one minute that there are bad ones, because I would not be so naive to think otherwise. I also said in my original post I have seen a few, and I did point out one was absolute nonsense.
The one I have seen recently, I thought may have guessed some, but in the last few week or so, its obviously it was not a guess from what I have learnt since.
Lets agree to disagree eh? |
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neil45
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Brechin, scotland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:25 am Post subject: |
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The names guessed are not exactly common , either is a mirror described from childhood as she said, neither is any of the other stuff I will not put on a public forum.
I supposed I have been duped just like you with Tony Cornell who's drivel I am not the least interested in after having a sly look online.
Online by the way which can not give you or any medium information about me. As I said you stick to your beliefs, Ill stick to mine, my original post asked if people have had dealings, and what they thought, not what some guy who had nothing better to do that study something he possibly cannot understand for 40 - 50 years and come to a conclusion, he is the only human since time began that can actually understand the afterlife and how to contact it. |
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thecactus
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3196
Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| forests wrote: | | There are more misses than the small amount of "hits". And the "hits" are never specific, never anything really convincing, just guess work or general comments that can connect to most people. |
I disagree. I once read a book called ''The Damage Done: Twelve Years Of Hell In A Bangkok Prison'', and the guy who wrote the book was a drug smuggler, who claimed to not believe in anything paranormal etc... Anyway he was wandering around Bangkok and ended up going down a back street and he came across a sign for a fortune teller, he went in and this really old woman asked him for money, when he handed over the money she instantly said, ''you were born on the -- of --, 19-- at (time)'' and he freaked, she was spot on with his DOB. She went on to tell him many things, half seemed to be wrong, but the other half was spot on, including, he would soon come into 10 years of very bad luck, which the title confirms to have been accurate. I know fortune telling isn't exactly mediumship, but they are closely enough related that I felt it was relevant. |
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forests
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| neil45 wrote: | The names guessed are not exactly common , either is a mirror described from childhood as she said, neither is any of the other stuff I will not put on a public forum.
I supposed I have been duped just like you with Tony Cornell who's drivel I am not the least interested in after having a sly look online.
Online by the way which can not give you or any medium information about me. As I said you stick to your beliefs, Ill stick to mine, my original post asked if people have had dealings, and what they thought, not what some guy who had nothing better to do that study something he possibly cannot understand for 40 - 50 years and come to a conclusion, he is the only human since time began that can actually understand the afterlife and how to contact it. |
Neil I have given you the scientific view on mediumship and you don't want to hear it becuase it goes against your belief.
If you want to believe a spirit contacted that medium to tell you about a mirror and a few random names then go ahead but you have been duped! sorry.
As for quoting Tony Cornell, as I said he spent over 50 years investigating mediums. The only other researchers I can think of who spent this long attending seances were Harry Price and Joseph Rinn (a magician) and yes both Price and Rinn also wrote most mediumship is the result of fraud 
It is not rational to deny the research of dedicated researchers who spent countless hours investigating this subject.
Last edited by forests on Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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forests
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| thecactus wrote: | | forests wrote: | | There are more misses than the small amount of "hits". And the "hits" are never specific, never anything really convincing, just guess work or general comments that can connect to most people. |
I disagree. I once read a book called ''The Damage Done: Twelve Years Of Hell In A Bangkok Prison'', and the guy who wrote the book was a drug smuggler, who claimed to not believe in anything paranormal etc... Anyway he was wandering around Bangkok and ended up going down a back street and he came across a sign for a fortune teller, he went in and this really old woman asked him for money, when he handed over the money she instantly said, ''you were born on the -- of --, 19-- at (time)'' and he freaked, she was spot on with his DOB. She went on to tell him many things, half seemed to be wrong, but the other half was spot on, including, he would soon come into 10 years of very bad luck, which the title confirms to have been accurate. I know fortune telling isn't exactly mediumship, but they are closely enough related that I felt it was relevant. |
Half were wrong and half were correct? Why not 100% correct? Just sounds like more guessing to me! |
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thecactus
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3196
Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| forests wrote: | | Half were wrong and half were correct? Why not 100% correct? Just sounds like more guessing to me! |
Yeah when she said his D.O.B. that was a hell of a guess  |
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neil45
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Brechin, scotland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:45 am Post subject: |
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You have still failed to see my replies with your own eyes. Common names can be guessed yes. How many sandys or mollys do u know. How do they know about the arguing over a white car yet cars come in dozens of colours and they didnt even know whether my dad could drive or not.
And with the many type of drink on the market how did she describe the label of my mums favourite...... Internet? Forests are you related to charla tan by a ny chance? |
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forests
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Common names can be guessed yes |
Good to see you admit this!
| Quote: | | How many sandys or mollys do u know |
A few actually. Sandy/Molly are not uncommon names.
| Quote: | | they didnt even know whether my dad could drive or not. |
lol most adults drive. Just a common guess.
| Quote: | | And with the many type of drink on the market how did she describe the label of my mums favourite. |
Typical guess. And if your mum was really communicating with this medium then what has the mention of a drink got to do with anything? lol.
| Quote: | | Forests are you related to charla tan by a ny chance? |
Neil you reject science for wishful thinking. I understand you have suffered a loss and you are willing to believe, but there is no need to resort to silly personal attacks. It seems you will twist evidence to match your belief, you are a case of true believer syndrome.
If you honestly believe in mediumship then go and join a spiritualist forum. This is a ghosts forum. As I already said most ghost hunters are critical of mediumship, you have presented nothing on this forum but your personal opinion (you have cited no links, scientists or paper etc to back up your claims) and your mediumship session was not taped and it is not possible to prove your claims.
Scientists have studied mediumship for over 120 years and all of the evidence has been negative i.e. mediumship explained by fraud and psychology. We don't throw out 120 years of science just for your personal mediumship sitting which mentioned two random names, a car and a drink. Thanks.  |
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neil45
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Brechin, scotland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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First of all dont patronize me regarding my loss.
Secondly it proves you dont read posts and you are more of a wind up as it was not my mum who saw a medium.
Also i admitted at the start that mediums can be false a bit like you come to think of it. 120 years of research into mediums etc is a waste. Thats the same as researching you to see if you are an idiot and wind up. That takes a few minutes tops. So at that point forests/sharla tan ill choose to ignore your drivel from now on. |
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neil45
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Brechin, scotland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| By the way its my thread. It would be nice if you did not post on it again. And i will post whenever i want and whatever i want i do not need some goon telling me otherwise. |
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flossy
Moderator
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4921
Location: UK tyne/wear (geordie land)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| thecactus wrote: | | Is it not possible that some people really are sensitives, and are naturally more sensitive to the spirit world than the average person? I believe that is the case in general, not referring to mediumship but just generally sensing a spirits presence; you see it all the time on shows retelling a ghost encounter, for example: a couple are sleeping in bed, one wakes up and claims to sense a presence in the room, while the other remains oblivious. |
i very much agree with you cactus  |
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