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flossy
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4921
Location: UK tyne/wear (geordie land)
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 Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| its just a saying, people go hunting/looking for ghosts, you seem very defensive? why? nearly all the paranormal groups i know call it this its very common, as well you probably already know this |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:27 am Post subject: |
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I don't mean to sound defensive. I just think the word hunt conjures up images of those clowns on Most Haunted blundering their way around a location and getting scared of their own shadows.
DB |
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flossy
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4921
Location: UK tyne/wear (geordie land)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:48 am Post subject: |
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i know what you mean there, that program is a joke lol
but theres no getting away from it im afraid, everyone tends to use the word hunt |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| flossy wrote: | i know what you mean there, that program is a joke lol
but theres no getting away from it im afraid, everyone tends to use the word hunt |
I know and agree with you completely Flossy but it's totally wrong to go hunting something that there's no actual evidence for. People will find what they expect to find - cold spots, odd feelings, shadows out of the corner of their eyes etc etc.
Haunted locations have to be investigated professionally not by some Most Haunted or TAPS wannabees creeping around pointing EMF meters and digital thermometers around and misinterpreting the readings.
There is a methodology that needs to be applied and it's not easy to do. Until both individuals and groups get their act together and investigate these locations in a methodical, professional manner they'll just be looked upon as another offshoot of Dark Tourism.
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Inn Spectre
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| D B Sweeney wrote: | | it's totally wrong to go hunting something that there's no actual evidence for. |
That's an absolute classic. However bungling and misguided the attempts of ghosthunting groups may be, they are prompted mostly by correlated sighting reports of independent individuals, which must be treated as evidence even if nothing is recorded. That ought to be sufficient justification at least to attempt to gather recordable evidence. | Quote: |
There is a methodology that needs to be applied and it's not easy to do. Until both individuals and groups get their act together and investigate these locations in a methodical, professional manner they'll just be looked upon as another offshoot of Dark Tourism. |
So now you think they should investigate in the absence of evidence? |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Inn Spectre wrote: | | D B Sweeney wrote: | | it's totally wrong to go hunting something that there's no actual evidence for. |
That's an absolute classic. However bungling and misguided the attempts of ghosthunting groups may be, they are prompted mostly by correlated sighting reports of independent individuals, which must be treated as evidence even if nothing is recorded. That ought to be sufficient justification at least to attempt to gather recordable evidence. | Quote: |
There is a methodology that needs to be applied and it's not easy to do. Until both individuals and groups get their act together and investigate these locations in a methodical, professional manner they'll just be looked upon as another offshoot of Dark Tourism. |
So now you think they should investigate in the absence of evidence? |
'correlated sighting reports' - What you mean is that people go to haunted locations and see shapes and shadows (if they're lucky) and feel cold spots or just get an odd feeling in certain locations.
These are not correlated sighting reports ie: these are not people seeing exactly the same thing and recording all the data in the same way for professional analysis.
Your 'correlated sighting reports' are peoples subjective interpretations that are invariably coloured by heightened expectations and a group mindset.
The plural of anecdote is not data. 'Yeah I felt that too' is not valid evidence unless it's part of a proper investigative template.
On your second point - of course I think there should be an investigation of these places. You've totally misunderstood my point. I'm not saying that these people aren't experiencing something - they obviously are. I'm saying that what they're experiencing is probably not spirits of the dead or residual energy of past events etc being picked up by the living.
There is a physiological and psychological aspect to their experiences that I certainly think warrants proper investigation. This encompasses a number of issues from ultrasound, high wave radio frequencies and Piezoelectricity to group dynamics and cultural influences.
Bungling misguided groups are going to remain just that and serious investigation is not going to be advanced one iota unless a co-ordinated methodology, in some very basic form at least, is introduced.
DB |
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Inn Spectre
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| D B Sweeney wrote: |
'correlated sighting reports' - What you mean is that people go to haunted locations and see shapes and shadows (if they're lucky) and feel cold spots or just get an odd feeling in certain locations. |
No that is not what I mean. The root source of any location gaining a reputation for being haunted, is as a result of numerous consistent reports from independent individuals going about their business and not expecting to experience anything unusual.
When such a situation arises, it is reasonable for the location to merit investigation.
| Quote: | On your second point - of course I think there should be an investigation of these places. You've totally misunderstood my point. I'm not saying that these people aren't experiencing something - they obviously are. I'm saying that what they're experiencing is probably not spirits of the dead or residual energy of past events etc being picked up by the living.
There is a physiological and psychological aspect to their experiences that I certainly think warrants proper investigation. This encompasses a number of issues from ultrasound, high wave radio frequencies and Piezoelectricity to group dynamics and cultural influences.
Bungling misguided groups are going to remain just that and serious investigation is not going to be advanced one iota unless a co-ordinated methodology, in some very basic form at least, is introduced.
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If you know enough about the factors you suggest are more likely, shouldn't that qualify you to devise a new methodology for investigators to adopt? |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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I understand what you're saying Inn Spectre but...
if a location has a reputation for being haunted and has numerous consistent reports of haunting type phenomena - how can anyone who goes about their business in that location not be aware of its reputation and thus be 'independent' in the sense you meant it?. Human nature being what it is a haunting doesn't stay secret for long.
If investigators want to adopt a more science based methodology for investigation and to factor in possible non supernatural hypotheses then there are plenty of books available as well as numerous websites.
If they're not prepared to do that I'd suggest they write 'Occams Razor' and a short explanation of what it is on the back of their hands as a quick reference guide
DB |
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flossy
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4921
Location: UK tyne/wear (geordie land)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:50 am Post subject: |
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what about the people who dont know about the reputation
a few year back me and a few friends went to a b&b for the weekend and i saw a ghost and it was sitting not 2 feet away from me, i didnt know that that room was haunted so i was not expecting to see a thing, pretty scary let me tell you lol |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| flossy wrote: | what about the people who dont know about the reputation
a few year back me and a few friends went to a b&b for the weekend and i saw a ghost and it was sitting not 2 feet away from me, i didnt know that that room was haunted so i was not expecting to see a thing, pretty scary let me tell you lol |
If people in that room are reporting consistent phenomena then that would be an ideal location to investigate and test [color=darkred]using techniques that would give valid data. [/color]
In the case you mentioned Flossy the haunting reputation is very localised (possibly known only to the B & B owners) and as such it is unlikely (though not impossible) that your experience was influenced by any prior knowledge.
I would ask though - how many years back was it, what did you see, how long did you see it for and was the sighting consistent with what other guests had experienced?
DB |
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flossy
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4921
Location: UK tyne/wear (geordie land)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:27 am Post subject: |
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i had no knowledge of the room being haunted, we didnt find out till after i told the land lady the following morning what i had saw
what i saw was a lady sitting on the bed, she looked like she was wipeing make up off her face, i asked her what she was doing and she started to giggle at me, as i thought it was my sis in law at first untill i realised she was asleep in the other bed
when i realised what it was i shot under my blankets (coward i know lol)
a bit later i peeked out and i saw just her head above my sis in laws, as i watched her she turned to look at me and i went back under the blankets and stayed there till morning lol
as you can imagine i didnt get any sleep
this was about 7maybe 8 yrs ago now but i,ll never forget it |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Did you see her as you were falling asleep or just waking since you say you shot under the blankets when you realised she was a ghost?
DB |
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Inn Spectre
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| D B Sweeney wrote: | I understand what you're saying Inn Spectre but...
if a location has a reputation for being haunted and has numerous consistent reports of haunting type phenomena - how can anyone who goes about their business in that location not be aware of its reputation and thus be 'independent' in the sense you meant it?. |
I'm not referring to people who are aware of a location's reputation. Prior to any given location gaining a reputation, there always must be an initial experience reported by an individual. That individual at least will have had unbiased perception.
In practice many individuals can and do have practically identical experiences at the same location, while completely oblivious to those of all others. |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| Inn Spectre wrote: | | D B Sweeney wrote: | I understand what you're saying Inn Spectre but...
if a location has a reputation for being haunted and has numerous consistent reports of haunting type phenomena - how can anyone who goes about their business in that location not be aware of its reputation and thus be 'independent' in the sense you meant it?. |
I'm not referring to people who are aware of a location's reputation. Prior to any given location gaining a reputation, there always must be an initial experience reported by an individual. That individual at least will have had unbiased perception.
In practice many individuals can and do have practically identical experiences at the same location, while completely oblivious to those of all others. |
That individual at least will have had unbiased perception.
I agree that the perception will be uncoloured by any prior knowledge of any supernatural activity but what we can't know is whether that perception (given the fallibility of the human senses)
is detecting a ghost or mistaking natural phenomena for a ghost or
has a fantasy prone personality or was in a hypnogogic or hypnopompic state when the experience occurred, was drunk, on medication, had a mental disorder etc.
In practice many individuals can and do have practically identical experiences at the same location, while completely oblivious to those of all others.
I disagree that this is the case. Ghosts and hauntings don't stay secrets for long. If you can cite some cases where this happens and show how the individuals concerned were not aware of the phenomena but all experienced the same thing I'd Like to examine the evidence.
DB |
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Iain Lawrence
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| I agrea that people go hunting ? rather funny atually. This chat started with someone wanting advice. Well my fiend, as has been noted above. There are no true answers to any of this paranormal stuff ! But a great deal of energy and money is being spent by governments, private companys and individuals who have a damb good idea that somewhere beyond our sences there is a very special place and apparantly its big buisness. But on a personal level I would say this to you. Yes take a camera and a dictaphone, take more equipment if you like. But when you sit down alone in that place, when your all alone or with just one friend remember this. If there are ghosts, the best way to reach out to them is to close your eyes and sit quietly. Remove all the thoughts from your mind, stop the ticking of your social clock and just reach inside yourself and listen. Because you are a ghost and if there is goingto be any contact with a spirit on a personal level, thats where it will take place. Let all the other people rush about flashing cameras and tryingto out do each other, you just tune in to yourself and maybe, just maybe someone could say hello. Then the experience could also have been recorded on your dictaphone which you placed quietly beside you. Then people wil say " did you experience something tonight" and you can say , "Yes I had an experiance listen !" or if you recorded nothing, At least you had a few minutes with the most inportant ghost of all YOU. Enjoy your investigation. |
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