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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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 Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Good advice Iain  .
However...
But a great deal of energy and money is being spent by governments, private companys and individuals who have a damb good idea that somewhere beyond our sences there is a very special place and apparantly its big buisness.
Are you saying big business etc is interested in finding ghosts? or is this very general reference to investment by science in things like the LHC whose purpose has no connection to the supernatural?.
By 'very special place beyond our senses' do you mean the continuation of human consciousness beyond physical death?. IMO there's no valid evidence that supports the view that there's anything beyond physical death.
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Iain Lawrence
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| Its a fact that the police, military and buisness's are reserching all aspects of the paranormal for object identification over long distances etc but also many governments are doing reserch into parapsychology and also into the liks between the paranormal and atomic and sub-atomics. Basicly they are looking for the origins of life. First to find winsso to speak. its probley cheaper that going to mars, so they do it. |
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Iain Lawrence
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| As for the over point, no there is no real evidence for proof of life after death, but we take it for granted that we come from somewhere and go to somewhere. I personaly believe the answer is in some form of spiritual energy of which we have no knowledge at this time nor equipment to read it. I also believe this energy pass's through time and form by use of electromagnetic energy, which appears to be presant both on an atomic and sub-atomic level. Im curently writing a book which covers this concept in some detail. |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| Iain Lawrence wrote: | | Its a fact that the police, military and buisness's are reserching all aspects of the paranormal for object identification over long distances etc but also many governments are doing reserch into parapsychology and also into the liks between the paranormal and atomic and sub-atomics. Basicly they are looking for the origins of life. First to find winsso to speak. its probley cheaper that going to mars, so they do it. |
Remote viewing was dropped by the military many years ago unless it's still carried on in some obscure 'black projects' but that's pure guessing unless you know any different. I'd be very surprised if you could show me which Police forces are researching the paranormal Iain.
The origins of life are the concern of Evolutionary Biologists not Theoretical Physicists.
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Iain Lawrence wrote: | | As for the over point, no there is no real evidence for proof of life after death, but we take it for granted that we come from somewhere and go to somewhere. I personaly believe the answer is in some form of spiritual energy of which we have no knowledge at this time nor equipment to read it. I also believe this energy pass's through time and form by use of electromagnetic energy, which appears to be presant both on an atomic and sub-atomic level. Im curently writing a book which covers this concept in some detail. |
I take it for granted that I'm a chance combination of sperm and egg and that those two constituent parts came from the biological reproductive systems of my parents- it wasn't magic and I didn't come from some etheric pre-life waiting room.
As for where I'm going - I guess I don't know but It's safe to say that there's no evidence that anyones ever come back to tell us what's 'on the other side'.
When we die we probably go back to the long dark eternity that we originally came from and if you want to go right back - that would be the atomic dust of dead stars.
Your other point is pure speculation. Bottom line is we just don't know.
Some years ago I had a conversation with a layman about flying saucers — because I am scientific I know all about flying saucers! I said "I don't think there are flying saucers'. So my antagonist said, "Is it impossible that there are flying saucers? Can you prove that it's impossible?" "No", I said, "I can't prove it's impossible. It's just very unlikely". At that he said, "You are very unscientific. If you can't prove it impossible then how can you say that it's unlikely?" But that is the way that is scientific. It is scientific only to say what is more likely and what less likely, and not to be proving all the time the possible and impossible. To define what I mean, I might have said to him, "Listen, I mean that from my knowledge of the world that I see around me, I think that it is much more likely that the reports of flying saucers are the results of the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence than of the unknown rational efforts of extra-terrestrial intelligence." It is just more likely.
RCHARD FEYNMAN
For Flying Saucers the word Ghosts could equally apply.
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Iain Lawrence
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| It brings us back to the world being flat and also that we are dealing with all the situation that we understand all the machanics of the universe. We don't and we don't even know where half of the elemental chart is. At some point we have to use some formulie which incorperates possible chances and opptions just as the leading scientists today are dong. In otherwords take what youve got, imagine the spaces, gain a conclusion and then find the other elemants of the equation later. The answer to the paranormal is masive and to delve into your equastion with the sperm and the egg. science can see the sperm and the egg. It can't see the life force. Science can not see the life force before production during or after,is that to say itsnot there ? Its only through assumption that descoverys are made. So lets not sit mindlessly on a cliff and stair out to see. Lets jump into a boat and see if we fall of the edge. |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:17 am Post subject: |
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It can't see the life force. Science can not see the life force before production during or after,is that to say itsnot there ?
The way sperm (and eggs) are produced by the human body is well understood:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermatogenesis
The 'life force' you're referring to occurs at the very basic level of the amino acids and the cells that combine and divide. It's taken billions of years of evolution to get to this point but there's no mystery to it.
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Iain Lawrence
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| So where do you come from as a consiouse entity, what makes all that blood and bone and memory run. Actualy we are just talking about the physical body. What if everything is just an actual excistance ? there is no world, no physical anything and we are just a consiouse thing that has imagined the entire thing and which is living within a space it has created itself as a form of excistance. Interesting hey, that would mean that I am the creator of all I observe and my own God and you would only excist as a figment of my creation. Which would mean in reality " if there is one" you aren't even there lol. |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Iain Lawrence wrote: | | So where do you come from as a consiouse entity, what makes all that blood and bone and memory run. Actualy we are just talking about the physical body. What if everything is just an actual excistance ? there is no world, no physical anything and we are just a consiouse thing that has imagined the entire thing and which is living within a space it has created itself as a form of excistance. Interesting hey, that would mean that I am the creator of all I observe and my own God and you would only excist as a figment of my creation. Which would mean in reality " if there is one" you aren't even there lol. |
what makes all that blood and bone and memory run.
The energy we get from our food and the oxygen we get via our lungs that feeds our muscles and brain - as the Meerkat says...simples.
The second part -interesting concept Iain but it's just speculative 
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Iain Lawrence
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Of course its speculative and I didn't mean what physicaly makes the body run. I meant what is the psychic force behind it as in with a computer. You have the computer its self, then the system that runs it..but where is the programing ?The thing that makes you you. |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Iain Lawrence wrote: | | Of course its speculative and I didn't mean what physicaly makes the body run. I meant what is the psychic force behind it as in with a computer. You have the computer its self, then the system that runs it..but where is the programing ?The thing that makes you you. |
A computer runs on electricity and very tiny, fast, complex switches.In turn it uses this fast processing system to operate the equally complex programmes that very talented humans write in the various codes that the computer understands. It's not magic but like life it's evolved over time. Obviously the timescale is far shorter but the concept is basically the same. Who knows - one day computers may have self awareness.I'd give it 25 years.
I don't think there's a psychic force to life. There is life and life runs on biological and evolutionary principles. The programming is in the DNA that has likewise evolved with each successive generation.
How did we evolve eyes? why is an Eagles eye better in some respects than a human eye? - evolution and natural selection - there's no mystery to it.
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Iain Lawrence
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| But what are YOU... the LIFE force ! you are not an inanimate object ! there is something deep within all the Physical matter that makes you who you are ! There isn't a scientist on the planet who would deny the presance of the LIFE FORCE. Its what makes you alive ! not DNA, not evolution, Actual life from the singled celled organisms to the human or the camel, we all have a LIFE FORCE which allows us to excist within the physical environment. Even most obsolute skeptics who have no intention of believing in ghosts, aliens or anything believe in the Life Force. I can't believe you think its your physical body which makes you all you are and before you were born you didn't excist...thats realy funny and actualy quite embarassing. Please don't tell anybody else ! Yep theres no more proof of life than being alive, but you know what you are. Live with it. P.S are you scared of death, there seems to be some form of denial going on here. |
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Iain Lawrence
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| and to be honest...I you feel that way, you must be very lonley and when your due to die, wouldn't your opinion worry you ! Please friend, try to look inwardly at some point. You are a wonderfull thing " what ever we are" and you owe it to yourself to open your mind a little and consider other options. Its a wonderfull journey and somewhere along the way you might find yourself. Have fun. |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| Iain Lawrence wrote: | | But what are YOU... the LIFE force ! you are not an inanimate object ! there is something deep within all the Physical matter that makes you who you are ! There isn't a scientist on the planet who would deny the presance of the LIFE FORCE. Its what makes you alive ! not DNA, not evolution, Actual life from the singled celled organisms to the human or the camel, we all have a LIFE FORCE which allows us to excist within the physical environment. Even most obsolute skeptics who have no intention of believing in ghosts, aliens or anything believe in the Life Force. I can't believe you think its your physical body which makes you all you are and before you were born you didn't excist...thats realy funny and actualy quite embarassing. Please don't tell anybody else ! Yep theres no more proof of life than being alive, but you know what you are. Live with it. P.S are you scared of death, there seems to be some form of denial going on here. |
Iain, I can understand you're having difficulty here in understanding my point of view. If you're asking what makes an individual the person that he or she is - then you need to read up on psychology and how we develop and grow as personalities - it's a massive subject and not one I can really explain on here - that's up to you to learn for yourself.
I don't really get what you keep meaning by 'the life force'. I've already said that life itself within the reproductive cycle begins with very complex chemical and cell division processes. I'm not here to educate you in the finer points of human biology mate.
Like Brian said (Life of Brian: 1979) - 'You have to work it out for yourselves'.
Even most obsolute skeptics who have no intention of believing in ghosts, aliens or anything believe in the Life Force
There are no absolute sceptics. There are sceptics who employ scepticism as a methodology for the evaluation of various claims (like myself) but sceptics aren't cynics and I think you're confusing the two.
As a sceptic I don't dismiss the existence of ghosts (as a person I'd love to see evidence that there's life after death) but I've yet to see compelling, scientifically corroborated evidence that we live on in some form after our bodies die.
Now I don't know about you Iain but I'm 47 now and I've been investigating, reading and researching (including going out 'in the field') the paranormal for over 30 years and believe me I've read a lot in that 30 plus years so I like to think I've done my fair share of paranormal homework
I can't believe you think its your physical body which makes you all you are and before you were born you didn't excist...thats realy funny and actualy quite embarassing. Please don't tell anybody else !
If you're so certain of that above statement why don't you throw me some crumbs of evidence that supports your contention? or if not answer this - Where were you before you were born?
I've offered a fairly acceptable explanation for where I was before I was born (without any hint of sarcasm).
Now let's see yours.....
Iain..it's over to you 
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Iain Lawrence
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Well you see, as far as where we come from is concerned. please please put me in toutch with a psychologist who can confirm the none excistance of life before birth and one who can explain to me at what point the human physical form suddenly aquires it's self as a living being..that would be pretty impressive to say the least and as far as education is conserned, I have been studying sciences since I was about 12 and have a back ground of very grate indepth study of the paranormal. Plus you don't need to explain the psychology to me either considering I have a diploma in applied psychology and also a diploma in parapsychology. I also study Quantum physica and quantum mechanics at a local university as well as now studying for a higher degree on parapsychology on line. I conduct my own investigations and have produced several papers for reading by the scientific comunity as well as being in the middle of writing a book covering theorys and my own outlook on parapychology. Finaly there you go again, asking me for evedence of statements ? Go and find them ! I had too. |
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